Mechanical and electrical engineers fees.

[Atlania]

Hi,
I am in the process of having a 3 bedroom house designed. The architects fees are as expected and I am very pleased with his work but I understand that now I have to have independent electrical and mechanical plans drawn up by experts, to submit for planning. The engineers have been chosen by the architect and will submit a quotation after meeting with us and discussing drainage, heating etc. Does any one know roughly how much I shall be charged for these plans? The house is around 220m2.

Atlania

[Nigel Howarth]

Hi Atlania and welcome to the forum.

The requirement to have separate E/M plans came in last year; and although I had my house built back in 2002, my architect persuaded me to use separate contractors for the electrical and mechanical engineering works. They provided the design, plans and supervision 'free' as I'd contracted them to do the work.

The E/M work will cost you somewhere in the region of 3% and 4% of the construction cost. But there could be additional charges for things like swimming pools and garden irrigation systems (we used a separate contractor for our irrigation system and we don't have a pool).

A couple of other specialists you will need are:

• Civil Engineer to undertake the structural design (as opposed to the architect's aesthetic design) - this will cost you around 1% of the total building cost. (I seem to recall that I paid CYP 1,200)
  
  Quantity Surveyor who will prepare 'Bills of Quantities' (BoQ) which your architect will include in the 'Invitation to Tender' he sends out to contractors. A BoQ is a list of all the materials required to build your home plus a couple of other bits and pieces. The contractors will use the BoQ to calculate the prices their quote in their bids. The QS fees are also around 1% of the building cost. (I think we paid a bit less that this for the basic BoQ - but I paid a further CYP 200 to have it translated into English).

Although I've expressed the figures as a percentage of the construction cost - you may be able to negotiate a fixed price for the work and also schedule the payments as the work is carried out so you pay x% for the design, y% for commissioning and z% for completion.

Regards,

[Atlania]

Hello Nigel,

Thank you for your reply and sorry for my delay. All of these fees certainly add up don't they! it now seems that the architects fees are only the beginning.

I have received a quotation from the electrical engineer and it is certainly less than 1% of construction costs for his preparation of electrical design drawings and tender documents. Added to this are 700 euros for site inspection and final testing, so can I take this as being acceptable?

Atlania

[Nigel Howarth]

Hello Atlania,

The fees sound OK to me - and yes, the fees do add up. But based on my experience, the overall costs are significantly less than buying from a developer. Back in 2002, my house CYP 550/m2 - that was 500/m2 for the construction and 50/m2 for all the fixtures.

One way that you might be able to save yourself some money is by buying most of the fixtures, fittings and finishes yourself - by doing this you should be able to negotiate a discount from the suppliers and you'll avoid paying the dreaded VAT twice. (If your contractor supplies there, he will pay his supplier VAT and then when he bills you for the work done, he will add VAT to his invoice - so effectively you'll be paying VAT twice).

Regards,

[Atlania]

Thank you Nigel. Good idea to buy fixtures and fittings, I had thought of buying the sanitry ware and tiles but would you buy everything from kitchen units to electrical sockets and switches? I hate VAT!!
Do you know what the building cost /m2 is now? WE have decided to have a timber framed house so that it will 'breathe' more easily and be warmer in winter and I believe that it will be cheaper than concrete.

Atlania

[Nigel Howarth]

You're welcome Atlania

About the only things we didn't buy were the wall sockets and light switches - but we did specify 'MK' as their manufacturer.

Overall we bought:

• Kitchen & utility units, worktops, splash-backs and appliances (the units were fitted by the supplier - worktops, splash-backs and appliances by our building contractor).
  
  Bath & shower room suites and fittings - all were fitted by our building contractor.
  
  Underfloor heating, water pressurising system, water softener, solar water heater, air-con - all fitted my the mechanical engineering company we sub-contracted the work to. (Our building contractor also used the company for all the other plumbing work).
  
  All the floor finishes - granite, ceramic tiles, and laminate - granite & ceramics fitted by our contractor, laminates by the supplier.
  
  Internal doors - fitted by the supplier.
  
  Light fittings and ceiling fans - fitted by our building contractor.
  
  Electric gates & garage doors - fitted by the supplier.
  
  Fitted wardrobes - fitted by the supplier

.

It is difficult to give an 'average' cost - much depends on the ground conditions and fixtures & fittings and location will also affect the price. E.g. If you're on a slope, you will probably need large reinforced concrete retaining walls - and if you're building some distance from one of the major towns, transport costs will add to the overall price. One third of the price of my bungalow I spent on the fixtures and fittings above.

Top quality timber frame houses will be imported and will cost around the same as a concrete and brick construction - but do make sure that you look at houses the contractors have already built and get your architects opinion on their build quality - and speak with their owners to get their opinion.

As for an indication of prices, you're probably looking between € 1,000 and € 1,600/m2 for a brick and concrete house and possibly € 1,000/m2 for an average timber frame. But as I say, much depends on your ground conditions and the quality of your finishes, fixtures and fittings.

Regards,

[Atlania]

Thank you for your detailed response. Its all very helpful.

Wow! its going to take a lot of shopping to find and choose all these things. I think I am going to really enjoy it !!!and this way you can get exactly what you want and have control on the spending. So can you tell me how this works please?...when the plans go out to tender, should we initially ask the contractors to give a price for everything on the BoQ and then when we have chosen the contractor, ask to have the things that we want to buy ourselves and have fitted by suppliers, deducted from the overall cost? or do we tell them from the beginning that we will be supplying specific fixtures and fittings?

Atlania

[Nigel Howarth]

Hi Atlanta,

Yes - it's an excellent way to control your spending. But one of the problems you may have is that you'll always like the more expensive floor tiles, the more expensive light fittings - so you'll need to control you spend very carefully! We spent CYP 50,000 on the things we provided after setting our budget at CYP 40,000.

We had already decided to buy many of the fixtures, fittings, etc ourselves, so they were excluded from our BoQ when the invitation to tender went out. But we did take out some of the carpentry (internal doors & wardrobes) after we'd received the tenders and selected our contractor but before we signed the contract with him. For those things we decided to supply in the first place (apart from the kitchen) the tender asked contractors to give a price for fitting them.

In fact we made quite a few changes after the bids came in to bring the cost down - including reducing the ceiling height by 30cm and reducing the height of the boundary retaining wall by 50cm. We also took out our bar and external pergola. But then we decided to have higher quality windows and doors fitted - and a few other bits and pieces that increased the overall costs. It was quite a juggling act to get what we wanted within our budget.

Once we had the bids in, it was straightforward to put the numbers into a spreadsheet and recalculate the costs based on the changes we made. We talked all of them through with our architect to make sure he was on-board.

For most of the fixtures and fittings we used a single supplier in Limassol and I negotiated a discount with them.

Building your own house takes a great deal of your time, thought and effort - we found it very enjoyable and not at all stressful. We did have some issues as you'd expect on any project - but our architect and contractor were both excellent and we were extremely pleased with the end result.

One thing you should avoid is making changes as you go along - once you sign the contract, you need to stick to the design. Some minor changes are inevitable such as the positioning of light switches - but don't start changing room sizes or moving walls.

Regards,

[Atlania]

Thank you Nigel, you have clarified many things that I have been lying awake thinking about.

I am sure in the course of time there will be much more to discuss, but all for now.

Thanks,
Atlania