POWER OF ATTOURNEY - FRAUD

[Fantomas]

HI

I have just found this forum, due to the fact I have been doing some research to try and help me out of a problem.

I have read with interest the thread on Cypriot banks coming for you in the UK which is quite relevant to me........

Here is the situation as brief as possible.

1) My wife has a property in cyprus in her name

2) a POWER OF ARROURNEY has signed on her behalf a document with the bank agreeing loan details etc.

up to now , this sounds like what a lot of people on the other thread were trying to get out of. Hoping to prove that the POA had no right to sign the docs etc.

Where our case is very different is...

..wait for it.

WE knew NOTHING ABOUT THIS!!

As hard to believe as it may be.... the first we heard was when we got (at about the same time) letters form the developers asking us what curtains we wanted and letters from the back about payments.

The reason for this is because my wife (stupidly) gave soembody her passport and payslips and they arranged all of this without her knowing......

I have recently found out and am hoping that

a) we can get out of this because clearly the bank could not have checkd that the POA had the right to sign the docs
b) we can get out of this because the POA had no right to sign them
c) we can get out of this because we have absolutely nothing (document wise) connecting us to the property developers.

This is where is gets very messy

d) we know the fraudster..

believe it or not I would rather not implicate the fraudster (dont ask), but I will if If gets us out of this, Clearly it is not just him who is breaking the law here. The POA and Property developers must have known they were not dealing with the buyer but making arrangements on her behalf.

so to sum up, my ife made one mistake - handing over payslips and passport, an know she has a property and mortgage she knew nothing about and id not want - - surely we can get out of this.

I doubt if anyone is in this situation - but any advice, thoughts comments would be really helpful and hopefuly get us down the road of being able to sleep again.

Thanks

[Pantheman]

If you believe a crime has been committed, you should go to the police and report it.

if someone is trying to, or has screwed you over, you have no loyalty to them.

The PoA would need to be authenticated by a government official, so if your wife never sign in his presence and someone has falsified it, it may not get you out of it, but the police should know about it.

Passport and payslips was necessary to apply for a mortgage, not for getting a PoA.

it is quite messy, but the way I see it, to get out of anything will need a court direction.

Good luck

[Nigel Howarth]

Hello Fantomas and welcome to the Forum,

As Pan has said, if you believe a fraud has been committed, you should report the matter to the Police.

(Incidentally, this is not the first report that has reached me about signatures being forged on Power of Attorney documents).

Am I correct in thinking that your wife didn't sign a contract to purchase a property either?

If you do not have any success with the Police, you may need to get a lawyer onto the case. The British High Commission in Nicosia publishes a list of lawyers who may be able to assist. Contact me (press the 'PM' button under this message) if you need a copy.

Regards,

[Fantomas]

thanks so far

and yes, she has signed nothing atall (with either back or property developer)

...In the previous case of forged signatures - what was the outcome??

Also part of me just thinks the bank should be investigating this, should I not begin by asking them for all copies of documents which make them think my wife has agreed to this , then it should be easy to prove.

I am pretty sure the fraudster will admit to the fraud, if this is the case what are your views on......

a) the implications on the fraudster (criminal record / Jail ?)
b) the chances of getting out of this??

I do not want to involve lawyers - simply due to cost

A sensible double pronged approach in my mind would be to
1- contact bank explain the situation and ask them to send me all contracts so i can see who signed
2- contact property developers and do the same

This way I am armed with all the evidence

I rally can not see how, if we knew nothing about this that we can be implicated - which is why I am very interested to hear what happened in the previous case of forged documents.

Many Thanks

[Pantheman]

Seriously, if it as blatant as that, you should go to the police without fail. This is clearly a crime. You should not care what happens to the fraudster, and what happened to someone else is not to go by. Each case is treated differently.

If I were you, I would call the bank, infact I would go there and tell the manager, you are going to bring the police and go public about this in the newspapers. that will scare the hell out of him.

Then go to the police. if your wife didn't sign anything and you got a mortgage and bought a house then flippin heck. You don't have to involve lawyers, the police prosecution service will deal with that.

I get the feeling that you know this person well or on a personal level??? That's why the hesitation???

Like I said, if he tried to screw you over, you have every right to take action without being the bad guy.

Good luck.

Go to the cops.

[Nigel Howarth]

I believe that one of the forged signature cases is being investigated by the Paphos police. I will be seeing the lawyer acting on behalf of the complainants later this month and I'll see if he can give me an update on progress.

You should ask the bank for copies of all the documents relating to the mortgage - including the signed Power of Attorney documents. And also the developer for the contract of sale.

You should not attempt to cancel any of the arrangements as this could be seen as an admittance by yourself that the documents are valid. All you should do is gather the documents.

If fraud is proven, I do not know what will happen - maybe a custodial sentence or a fine. It will be up to the Attorney General to decide whether to bring charges against the perpetrators.

If the police decide not to investigate, you will need a lawyer to pursue this on your behalf.

Regards,

[Fantomas]

Thanks a lot again.

I agree with most of these points, and yes I do know the person (actually my wives brother!)

I originally thought the bank was as innocent as me in all of this, but clearley they are guilty of being an unscrupulous lender if they have lent this money without the appropriate documents being in place,

I think I go to the bank and demand to see someone, and get this sorted over there - if they can show me forms signed, I will confirm they are all forged and threaten with the press if it gets me nowhere.

One thing I dod not mention before........

My wife was in contact with the bank at the back end of last year, she kept getting demands for money (which we did not pay) and they were going to send some forms detailing a revised deal (even though we had no intention of agreeing to anything) , this was last Nov, and since then we have heard nothing!! - seems like a massive delay to me>>>>

Maybe reading too much into this but do you think they may have realised the error in this and are stopping chasing us, ? or is this level of delay normal???

[Nigel Howarth]

It's difficult for me to say why the bank has not been in contact again. It could be that they have realised they are in an impossible position or there could be some other reason.

I will hopefully be seeing the lawyer I mentioned tomorrow and I'll see if he can tell me what progress is being made on the forgery case that he is dealing with.

Regards,

[Fantomas]

thanks - I would really appreciate that

I know it may not tell me the exact outcome, but it will give me an idea.......

[Fantomas]

Just an update - I have been to the British Police, who told me they could not open up a case due to the fact the crime was committed in Cyprus.

They advised me to contact the bank and tell them the details.

I am having a conversation with a legal consultant tomorrow, as my company have put me in touch with them. I have given him all the facts - but I am definately leaning towards the argument put forward by PAN. Let the bank sort it out. I have seen all the documents myself and none are signed by my wife..... so surely I have nothing to worry about.... I hope!

I mean, what have they got on me, the only thing is we have waiting a long time to get this far, which surely does not mean we are agreeing to things.

[Fantomas]

Hi Nigel

I had my 'chat' with the legal consultant today.

To be honest he did not give me much of an indication as to how likely it is that we can get out of this.

He said the first thing we need to do is get my wife to Cyprus, and give a sample of hand writing to the bank. This is to be done to prove that the documents are forged.

I must admitt I do not want to do this, this is going to be a lot of time and money, I go back to my previous post my wife is totally innocent o should the bank not be investigating this???? Surely because they have lent money (by paying to a property developer) to someone who does not want it, therefore they need to investigate how this has happened , not us.

he is saying that the bank will want their money back, which is in the hands of a developer, who has got his hands on the money by playing a part in forging a contract of sale!!!!!

I would be happy to travel to London to get my wife to sign with the back there - I would do anything to help, but I think going to cyprus is quite a lot to ask.

What do you think?

Thanks

[Nigel Howarth]

I'm afraid that it may require a visit to Cyprus to sort this out.

Does the bank have any branches in the UK? If so, it may be worth visiting their head office and discussing the situation with them.

Regards,

[Fantomas]

cheers, they do in London, they said they would be ok to witness my wifes signiature / handwriting and send it over, providing cyprus are happy with this too.

trying to sort this out next week, certainly beats flying over....

[Nigel Howarth]

I hope you manage to get this sorted out.

Regards,

[Pantheman]

Hi Nigel

I had my 'chat' with the legal consultant today.

To be honest he did not give me much of an indication as to how likely it is that we can get out of this.

He said the first thing we need to do is get my wife to Cyprus, and give a sample of hand writing to the bank. This is to be done to prove that the documents are forged.

I must admitt I do not want to do this, this is going to be a lot of time and money, I go back to my previous post my wife is totally innocent o should the bank not be investigating this???? Surely because they have lent money (by paying to a property developer) to someone who does not want it, therefore they need to investigate how this has happened , not us.

he is saying that the bank will want their money back, which is in the hands of a developer, who has got his hands on the money by playing a part in forging a contract of sale!!!!!

I would be happy to travel to London to get my wife to sign with the back there - I would do anything to help, but I think going to cyprus is quite a lot to ask.

What do you think?

Thanks

First things first, you cannot report a crime committed in one country in another.
So, you will have to come to Cyprus.
Then, I would not be giving samples of your signatures and handwriting to anyone, especially the bank as they are an associated party.
You must come to Cyprus, go to the police and report the fraud. They have a job to investigate and may employ a handwriting expert to prove the case.
If you have to go to court, you can get your expenses awarded, you may not need a solicitor if the police are going to take up the case.
If they don't, then you can take out a private prosecution against the bank for fraud.
Eitherway, you are going to have to come to Cyprus.