transfer fees

[paul13]

Hi. i am new to this, but i was wondering if you could let me know if transfer fees apply if a spouse were to transfer over half of a property or properties to thier over half? thanks very much,

[Nigel Howarth]

Hi Paul and welcome to the property forum.

According to the Land Registry:

TRANSFERS - Upon gift from spouse to spouse and from relative to relative within the third degree of kindred other than upon gift by parent to child on the assessed value of the property - 8%

Quite expensive!

Can I ask why you want to do this?

Regards,

[Pantheman]

Nigel,

Not doubting your info, but we have had this question before and my understanding was that spouse to spouse was free.

I have recently done this and paid no Transfer fess.

Actually it was my daughters, I gave them some land and they transferred half of it to their husbands. We paid no Transfer fees.

Given transfer fees are on 3%, 5% and then 8% staggered I don't see how they can say 8% flat.

The husband/wife could just claim they sold it to each other and pay less. Something doesn't ring true here.

btw, happy new year to you.

Pan

[Nigel Howarth]

Happy New Year Pan,

I got the information from the and Registry's website at http://www.moi.gov.cy/moi/citizenschart ... enDocument

It says that gifts from parents to child are charged at 4% and that gifts from spouse to spouse are charged at 8%.

The Greek language version is at http://www.moi.gov.cy/moi/citizenschart ... penElement

and I think it says "Gift between spouses and between relatives up to the third degree of kinship except gifts from parents to children, on the appreciated value of real estate that is transferred".

So perhaps it's 8% of the value that the property has gone up between you buying it and giving it to your wife (or children)?

Cheers,

[Pantheman]

Hello Nigel,

I will investigate this further as I am completely confused on this now. I will report back when I have some more info.

As an aside I wonder if it might be the 1.1.1980 value that they mean as the %ages seem quite high and any parent who wishes to give his children his immovables may not even have that amount of money, neither he nor the child. Again something not quite right here.

I'll be in touch.

Pan

[Nigel Howarth]

Thanks Pan,

Yes, it is very confusing - look forward to hearing from you.

I guess you heard about real estate values being revalued at current day prices for taxation purposes? It could be 'interesting'.

Cheers,

[Pantheman]

Thanks Pan,

Yes, it is very confusing - look forward to hearing from you.

I guess you heard about real estate values being revalued at current day prices for taxation purposes? It could be 'interesting'.

Cheers,

Well come everyone to the EU!

Yes we shall see what comes. To be honest the whole RE situation needs re-evaluation, it is long over due even if there is some tax levied. Untill we get to a sensible system we are always going to have issues where property is concerned. And hey, if my property now seems to be of greater value, thet can only be good, right???

Anyway, will be in touch Nigel.

All the best for the new year.

Pan.

P.S. if you ever come down east, give us a shout, would be happy to meet up for coffee.

[paul13]

Hi Paul and welcome to the property forum.

According to the Land Registry:

TRANSFERS - Upon gift from spouse to spouse and from relative to relative within the third degree of kindred other than upon gift by parent to child on the assessed value of the property - 8%

Quite expensive!

Can I ask why you want to do this?

Regards,

Hi Nigel.sorry it has taken so long to reply.
However it is still not clear if i would have pay transfer fees spouse to spouse or not.
As for why i would want to do this. 1. my wife is a Cypriot, we first moved to Cyprus in 1997 to start a business with her brother. If i had declared myself as the partner in those days my brother-in-law would have had to have had 55% of the business in his name.
2. I read some where that if one or the other dies the property of that person would be up for grabs for who every put in a claim. with the exception of 1/4 which could be willed by that person. really its difficult to think what to do for the best, so any advice would be thankful accepted.

[Nigel Howarth]

Hi Paul and Happy New Year,

Pan is investigating this and will get back when he has an answer. As you will see from earlier replies, Pan transferred some land to his daughters and didn't have to pay transfer fees - but the rules say that he should have done. So we are all confused at the moment.

Regarding property being up for grabs if one person dies, I can answer this for you.

If YOU are a British citizen, you can Will your property to whomsoever you wish. So if the property is registered in YOUR name (i.e. your name appears on the Title Deed as the owner) you have nothing to worry about PROVIDING you make a Will here in Cyprus. (If you don't have a Will, then your property will be disposed of in accordance with the intestacy rules of Cyprus).

If your WIFE is the registered owner of the property, then there are limitations as to how she can dispose of her property. Under Cyprus Law there is a system of forced heirship. E.g. If a person dies leaving a spouse and a child then ¾ of the estate passes to the spouse and child in equal shares and the person making the Will has the freedom to dispose of the remaining quarter share as they wish. However, currently under Cyprus law, there is a concession for persons who/or whose fathers were born in the UK or in a Commonwealth country. Providing they have made a Will, such persons are allowed to leave their Cyprus assets to whom they wish on their death.

In this situation, if your WIFE were to pass away then you would receive 3/8 of her estate and your children would also receive 3/8. And providing your WIFE had made a Will, she could leave the remaining 1/4 to you. So you would have 5/8s of her estate and your children 3/8s.

BUT, if your WIFE's father was born in the UK or any other British Commonwealth country (apart from Cyprus), she can Will her property to whosoever she wishes.

I think what is more important for you at this time is for you and your wife to get your Wills sorted out. This will save you a lot of hassle when one of you eventually passes away. I don't believe you'll gain anything by transferring half the property to your wife's name (assuming that you are British and the property is registered in your name).

You can read more about the importance of making a Will on my website at http://www.cyprus-property-buyers.com/l ... a-will.htm

Regards,

[Pantheman]

Nigel,

I may be wrong in this, but I was under the impression that for immovaable property, it got equally divided between spouse and kids and that personal belongings can be willed.

I will need to double check this as well.

Pan

[paul13]

[qu
Thanks for that Nigel. You said that nothing would be benefited by transferring half my property into my wife’s name. but the point is that all property is in my wife’s name because of her being Cypriot. would it be of benefit to either of us if the property was in my name being as I am English?

ote="Nigel Howarth"]Hi Paul and Happy New Year,

Pan is investigating this and will get back when he has an answer. As you will see from earlier replies, Pan transferred some land to his daughters and didn't have to pay transfer fees - but the rules say that he should have done. So we are all confused at the moment.

Regarding property being up for grabs if one person dies, I can answer this for you.

If YOU are a British citizen, you can Will your property to whomsoever you wish. So if the property is registered in YOUR name (i.e. your name appears on the Title Deed as the owner) you have nothing to worry about PROVIDING you make a Will here in Cyprus. (If you don't have a Will, then your property will be disposed of in accordance with the intestacy rules of Cyprus).

If your WIFE is the registered owner of the property, then there are limitations as to how she can dispose of her property. Under Cyprus Law there is a system of forced heirship. E.g. If a person dies leaving a spouse and a child then ¾ of the estate passes to the spouse and child in equal shares and the person making the Will has the freedom to dispose of the remaining quarter share as they wish. However, currently under Cyprus law, there is a concession for persons who/or whose fathers were born in the UK or in a Commonwealth country. Providing they have made a Will, such persons are allowed to leave their Cyprus assets to whom they wish on their death.

In this situation, if your WIFE were to pass away then you would receive 3/8 of her estate and your children would also receive 3/8. And providing your WIFE had made a Will, she could leave the remaining 1/4 to you. So you would have 5/8s of her estate and your children 3/8s.

BUT, if your WIFE's father was born in the UK or any other British Commonwealth country (apart from Cyprus), she can Will her property to whosoever she wishes.

I think what is more important for you at this time is for you and your wife to get your Wills sorted out. This will save you a lot of hassle when one of you eventually passes away. I don't believe you'll gain anything by transferring half the property to your wife's name (assuming that you are British and the property is registered in your name).

You can read more about the importance of making a Will on my website at http://www.cyprus-property-buyers.com/l ... a-will.htm

Regards,[/quote]

[Nigel Howarth]

Hi Paul,

Ah - now I understand - your wife is the registered owner.

At the present time if your wife were to pass away then you would receive 3/8 of her estate and your children would also receive 3/8. And providing your wife had made a Will, she could leave the remaining 1/4 to you (or anyone else). So you would have 5/8s of her estate and your children 3/8s.

(But if your wife's father was born in the UK or any other British Commonwealth country (apart from Cyprus), she can Will her property to whosoever she wishes).

If you were to have the property registered in joint names (i.e. she gifted half of it to you), then the situation would be as follows:

1. You should make a Will leaving all your property to whomsoever you wish. Then if you were to die before your wife, your property would be disposed of in accordance with your final wishes.

If your wife were to pass away before you, then you would receive 3/8ths of her estate (which would equate to 3/16ths of the property) and your children would receive 3/8ths of her estate (again 3/16ths of the property). So you would then have 11/16ths of the property.

Your wife could also leave you (or anyone else) a further 1/4 of her estate (which would equate to 1/8th of the property). If she left it to you, you would end up with a total of 13/16ths of the property.

I don't you that it would be of any assistance to you for her to gift half the property to you. If she had been married before then things could get more complicated and in this case it would be better for you if she gifted half to you.

(Also, if you are contemplating divorcing her, then it would be in your interest to have half the property registered in your name).

As you know, Pan is looking into a couple of things and will be coming back with some points of clarification.

Regards,

[paul13]

Thanks Nigel. Just one other thought and that is she has been naturalized and holds a British passport. Would this make a difference to this situation?

Hi Paul,

Ah - now I understand - your wife is the registered owner.

At the present time if your wife were to pass away then you would receive 3/8 of her estate and your children would also receive 3/8. And providing your wife had made a Will, she could leave the remaining 1/4 to you (or anyone else). So you would have 5/8s of her estate and your children 3/8s.

(But if your wife's father was born in the UK or any other British Commonwealth country (apart from Cyprus), she can Will her property to whosoever she wishes).

If you were to have the property registered in joint names (i.e. she gifted half of it to you), then the situation would be as follows:

1. You should make a Will leaving all your property to whomsoever you wish. Then if you were to die before your wife, your property would be disposed of in accordance with your final wishes.

If your wife were to pass away before you, then you would receive 3/8ths of her estate (which would equate to 3/16ths of the property) and your children would receive 3/8ths of her estate (again 3/16ths of the property). So you would then have 11/16ths of the property.

Your wife could also leave you (or anyone else) a further 1/4 of her estate (which would equate to 1/8th of the property). If she left it to you, you would end up with a total of 13/16ths of the property.

I don't you that it would be of any assistance to you for her to gift half the property to you. If she had been married before then things could get more complicated and in this case it would be better for you if she gifted half to you.

(Also, if you are contemplating divorcing her, then it would be in your interest to have half the property registered in your name).

As you know, Pan is looking into a couple of things and will be coming back with some points of clarification.

Regards,

[Nigel Howarth]

Hi Paul,

I don't know the answer to this one, but I suspect your wife now has dual citizenship. You'll need to take further advice on this - it's out of my area of expertise.

But if your wife wanted, she may be able to voluntarily renounce her Cypriot citizenship. This is permitted in certain circumstances.

Regards,

[paul13]

Thanks Nigel.For your help regards paul

Hi Paul,

I don't know the answer to this one, but I suspect your wife now has dual citizenship. You'll need to take further advice on this - it's out of my area of expertise.

But if your wife wanted, she may be able to voluntarily renounce her Cypriot citizenship. This is permitted in certain circumstances.

Regards,