Cyprus Property Forum for Buyers, Sellers & Investors

Hi Nigel and Everyone,

Just a brief backstory. We purchased a new build flat in late 2019. It was built by a local well-known contractor/developer in our region in partnership with an investor from Lebanon. All the contracts were with the investor and he also owns two flats in our building. It was essentially "X" Building built by "X" Investor powered by "X" developer. That's the structure of how it was financed/built.

We were recently told about six months ago the title deeds were nearly ready, that the land registry had separated the flats and were in the final stage. Our contract stated clearly "1500 euros due on issuance of title deeds". This was the final payment as part of the purchase price. The investor asked everyone via the communal messaging group to settle the final amount so he can prepare to issue the deeds. This isn't what the contract said, it was on "issuance" of title deeds, but for good faith we paid the final amount to get things moving. The investor said he had appointed a representative and broker to act on his behalf to issue the title deeds and they were preparing some final clearance documents and audit forms. When we were told by the broker they were ready to proceed, we went round to the various offices and got all our certificates i.e water certificate, municipality tax certificate etc and handed them to the broker. The broker then made an appointment at the land registry. We had to pay a tax I believe, transfer tax I think because even though we paid VAT they said they valued the flat at 170 when we paid 165 in 2019. I wasn't expecting this because I thought they were working off the valuation on the deeds which is actually 135 but from what they said, they have different valuations for different things. The fee was only 100 and something euros and 5 for the deeds. Job done, we got our deeds this week in our name around 3 and a half years after the purchase.

On exiting the office, the broker demanded 200 euros from us for his services. He said he shouldn't really let us leave with the deeds until we paid the 200e, but we had them and we said we will speak with the investor, we haven't been told we needed to pay anything. As far as we were concerned the broker was acting on the investor/developers behalf and not ours, at no point were we told by either the developer/investor or the broker (when visiting his office a couple of times to hand in forms etc) that there was a 200e fee that would be owed to the broker for his services. After all, where does it stop?, they didn't make one small mention of any fee due to the broker, so he could have turned around and said "you owe me 1000e" for my services, and the developer/investor used this broker on his behalf without anyone else having any input so he could have requested whatever fee he liked. Point I'm trying to make, if a fee was owed from any of us for any work the broker did, it would be best practice to obviously make this clear from the very beginning not at the very last moment after the title deeds are issued. If we were told beforehand, you will more than likely need a lawyer or your own broker but you can use mine or we can use the joint broker and it will cost you 200e which might be cheaper than your own guy that is a different issue, but I'd also like to mention we had no agreement or contract with the broker or were told of any fee by anyone nor agreed any fee, so not quite sure how that works.

Contacted the developer with the above and he said "well it's not in my contract either that I have to pay the broker" and I was thinking "Oh my god, he's your representative and broker, whatever deal you enter into with him is your responsibility not mine". So stated all of the above clearly again and he read it but didn't reply. I'm not sure the investor/developer has any skin in the game now because he's not the one that was asked for the 200e fee from the broker so he probably doesn't care, but what's going on here? Is there ever a fee outside of the purchase contract that is usually requested to sort the documents out for the transfer or should that sort of work be done by the developer as part of his responsibility to issue the title deeds and included within the purchase price and purchase contract? Shouldn't the developer be paying HIS broker/representative and should we be being asked for a fee from the broker randomly for his "services" without anyone saying this from the start?

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.

Don't pay, it's not your responsibility. You have your deeds send him to the investor/developer and don't stress.

Thanks. Not sure if it was a mis-communication between the developer and his "broker" or the broker just trying his luck, but as you say it's not our responsibility. This is Cyprus my friend

Hi GSPORT & welcome to the forum

I agree with Pantheman - don't pay.

Regards,

Thank you Nigel.

Have you ever heard of anything like this before? The developers lawyer/broker/presentative asking the buyers for a fee for services to transfer the title deeds on top or in addition to the fees payable in the contract?

I agree about not paying but I'm just wondering if we are not paying because we didn't agree to anything nor were informed they would want a fee before we started the title deeds process or if we aren't paying because it's very unusual and the developer has to sort out the title deeds as part of the purchase and not ask for any additional fees to issue the title deeds? Or a combination of the two!

GSPORT wrote: 24 Mar 2023 08:53Have you ever heard of anything like this before?

No - I've not heard of demands for money after the purchaser has paid the Property Transfer Fees.

But I have heard of developers charging an 'administration fee' to attend the Land Registry and effect the transfer. (But this takes place before the buyer has paid the Property Transfer Fees who then has no option but to pay this 'administration fee' to get their Title Deed.)

Everything you need to pay is set out in your contract. If the developer engages someone to represent him/act on his behalf, then it's up to the developer to pay him.

Regards,

Thanks Nigel. I thought so. Thanks for your help. Developer didn't reply to the final message I sent and the representative hasn't been in touch again, so I'll leave it to them both to thrash it out between themselves if they must.

Whilst I've opened this thread and we've got deeds, I'm wondering, do you need planning permission for a very small above ground built in/permanent swimming pool on a roof garden? It would be more of a plunge pool, very large bath, jacuzzi type "pool" (Santorini style i.e enough to lay down in but not swim in/water about knee height maximum) but it would be built in i.e tiled, concrete etc, and it would largely if not totally be out of view due to a solid wall at the front of the roof garden and the height? We are having to re-do our roof garden soon for various reasons, waterproofing being one, different tile choice another, kitchen/bbq area built in, and the project will cost around 2000-3000e but just very briefly exploring that option. Due to the works already happening and the small size of it/relatively low cost , it would be an interesting idea but if planning permission and architects are involved it's probably more hassle than it's worth and would just look at getting something temporary and moveable like a hot tub/jacuzzi. I'm guessing anything movable or temporary is fine, but something permanent would require planning permission/permits?

The developer/investor got back in touch and because he owns two flats on the same floor as us, he comes maybe once a month or every couple if months from abroad, he said "I will pay the broker fee of 200 euros if I can use your wifi when I come". He's previously asked if he could use it because our signal reaches his apartment and he pays half the monthly rate i.e 10 euros if he comes and wants to use it for a week for example but come on now....where did he find this deal and suggestion from LOL.

GSPORT wrote: 27 Mar 2023 08:06do you need planning permission for a very small above ground built in/permanent swimming pool on a roof garden?

Yes. Generally speaking, anything that permanently changes the outward appearance of a property requires planning permission.

Also, you'll need to consider the following:

If the roof is part of the communal area, which is usually is, you'll need permission from the Management Committee.

The roof may not be able to bear the additional weight.

Regards,

GSPORT wrote: 31 Mar 2023 23:19"I will pay the broker fee of 200 euros if I can use your wifi when I come".

Disconnect your wifi!

Cheers,

Nigel Howarth wrote: 02 Apr 2023 11:37

GSPORT wrote: 31 Mar 2023 23:19"I will pay the broker fee of 200 euros if I can use your wifi when I come".

Disconnect your wifi!

Cheers,

Yes, did think of pushing back on his "I'll waive/pay the broker fee if I can use your wifi when I come" because I was shocked at how he was approaching it like he was in a position of strength and was making us a good offer considering we've already got the title deeds, but then I reconsidered and just thought it was less hassle to tell him okay deal, let him use it a couple of times until the end of the summer and then change the passwords. No mention in his great deal about how many months/years he expects to use our wifi for free in return for him paying his own broker/representative. Anyway it's shocking but not surprising to me that a developer who owns two penthouses in our building and is on his fourth or fifth sold-out development now is so tight he won't set up his own wifi connection for 200 euros a year in his own apartment but anyway...and regards to his deal, they just make it up as they go along

Nigel Howarth wrote: 02 Apr 2023 11:36

GSPORT wrote: 27 Mar 2023 08:06do you need planning permission for a very small above ground built in/permanent swimming pool on a roof garden?

Yes. Generally speaking, anything that permanently changes the outward appearance of a property requires planning permission.

Also, you'll need to consider the following:

If the roof is part of the communal area, which is usually is, you'll need permission from the Management Committee.

The roof may not be able to bear the additional weight.

Regards,

Hi- It's ours, it's a private roof garden that is part of our property zoned off by a wall and accessed via stairs on our balcony. It can take the additional weight of a hot tub etc but I think the pool is a complex idea and would be worth putting that money aside to put towards a pool if we move into or build a villa in the future.