Finding owner of niegbouring property

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Monman
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Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Monman » 05 Jan 2019 10:53

Hello
We own an appartment in a complex in Peyia.The living area ceiling of our appartment is partially the veranda of the appartment above us.
We have a problem in so far as moisture from the above appartments veranda is regularly damaging our ceiling,we have to repair the cieling at least once a year.
The"owners" (Joint ownership Husband,Wife and Motherinlaw) of the property vacated the property in about 2014 and have not paid any community fees etc since that date,and according to thr Managment company have "disapeared" back to the UK.
What measures can I take to carry out any repairs to the above veranda and try to recoup thr costs ?
Is this a matter for the residants commitee under the joint property law 93 ?
Regards
Monman



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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Nigel Howarth » 05 Jan 2019 17:09

Hello Monman and welcome to the forum

Your Management Committee should be able to find out the contact details of the absentees from the Land Registry. The Management Committee could then write to them advising them of the situation and that they will be entering their apartment to carry out urgent repairs. (The law permits this.)

But it could be that the apartment has been 'handed back' to the bank (again the Land Registry should know. The Management Committee can then contact and write to the bank as above.

I believe the cost of repairs will be paid by the communal fund.

You can find an English translation of the law at THE IMMOVABLE PROPERTY (TENURE, REGISTRATION AND VALUATION) (AMENDMENT) LAW OF 1993 (See page 16 para 9. regarding entry & repairs.)

I expect the drain (duct) on the balcony is blocked or the floor of the balcony has not been waterproofed.

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Monman
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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Monman » 07 Feb 2019 18:37

Hello Nigel
The owners of the property in question do not respond to any correspondence, but I am able to enter the property as the Management company have change the locks and have a set of keys.
My Insurance company inspected the damage to my apartment and were also able to inspect the
Veranda above my apartment. They refuse to cover costs of any repairs to the veranda above (also the repairs to my apartment) and say I should contact the owners insurance company, which of course is not possible (I doubt if the owners have any insurance)
You wrote
The Management Committee could then write to them advising them of the situation and that they will be entering their apartment to carry out urgent repairs. (The law permits this.)
Can I assume that I can legally instruct the Management company to carry out any emergency repair work to the veranda above, in order that my property receives no further damage.?? (The veranda is in a terrible condition but we would only carry out such works that prevent damage to my property.
I am also a bit confused, should the Management Company (they have the owners address) or the Management Committee write to the owners?
Should I have to pay for this work myself?
Ps (the Management Company hinted that the Bank may have repossessed the property ,would that improve matters ?
Regards
Monman



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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Nigel Howarth » 07 Feb 2019 20:01

Hello Monman

It is the Management Committee you should be dealing with as it is their responsibility - not the management company. So they should be writing to the owners.

You can ask the Management Committee if they could resolve the problem with the balcony, but you cannot 'legally instruct' them.

If you cannot contact the owners and/or find details of their insurance, I'm afraid you'll have to pay for the work yourself.

There is a possibility that the bank may have repossessed the property - the Management Committee should be able to find out if this is the case from the Land Registry. If the bank has repossessed the property then it will be in their best interest to repair the damage to the veranda but I don't think they'll pay for the repairs to your apartment - but you can always ask.

I assume that the owners of the apartment are not paying their communal fees?

(I guess all that's needed at the moment is plastic sheeting or something to stop the water coming though to your apartment. Later in the year when the weather improves and the concrete dries a propery repair can be done.)

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Monman
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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Monman » 08 Feb 2019 11:21

Thankyou Nigel

Does this text in the Law have any bearing on the situation regarding who is responsible for the repair costs ??

[i]. It has the duty to control, operate, manage and administer the communal ownership, which it must keep and maintain in good and operational condition to insure the communal premises and call a general meeting of the owners of the units at least once a year. Moreover, it has the right to establish and operate a fund, the balance of which must be sufficient to cover the management expenses. Furthermore, the MC has to define each owner’s share in the communal expenses and the method of its payment. In the event of failure of any owner to pay his share, the MC is entitled to recover such amount in the disbursements for repairs and other works carried out in the building or relate to its management through the filing of an action in court against the owner in question[/i]

Regards
Monman



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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Pantheman » 08 Feb 2019 11:51

I think that the management committee could pay for this damage and recoup the cost from the bank/new owners as unpaid communal charges. Because of the bank have repossessed the property they are deemed the legal owners and are subject to the same terms as everyone else to pay.

Try it, see what the committee say, they have nothing to lose, they could also claim interest on unpaid monies.


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Monman
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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Monman » 11 Feb 2019 17:52

Hello
Sorry to dwell on this matter
further to our "posts" regarding damage to my property due to a neglected veranda above.
Here a short outline of the problem
Due to lack of maintenance to the veranda storm water from the property above us repeatedly damages the ceilings in our apartment.
The owners of the above property have vacated the property and not paid any communal fees since (I believe) 2014.A debt collection Agency has been unable to recover any outstanding communal fees
They do not reply to any post the (The Management Company has a UK postal address) and it is not quite clear whether the property has been “repossessed” by a Bank.
I have a Building Insurance who refuse to cover costs of any damage to my property or the property above.
I have contacted the complex Management Committee who will not instruct anyone to carry out any sort of temporary work to at least prevent further damage, and certainly do not feel that they have any responsibility in the matter.
Surely under the Law They have a certain responsibility? Or to what extent are they responsible for any repairs to the building (which areas? Stairwells, Roofs ???) Are the appartment (Stormwater) drains communal ownership ??
.The Management Committee has the duty to control, operate, manage and administer the communal ownership, which it must keep and maintain in good and operational condition to insure the communal premises and call a general meeting of the owners of the units at least once a year. Moreover, it has the right to establish and operate a fund, the balance of which must be sufficient to cover the management expenses. Furthermore, the MC has to define each owner’s share in the communal expenses and the method of its payment. In the event of failure of any owner to pay his share, the MC is entitled to recover such amount in the disbursements for repairs and other works carried out in the building or relate to its management through the filing of an action in court against the owner in question

Regards
Monman
PS My builder was at the premises today and reports the several other apartments are having similar problems.



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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Nigel Howarth » 11 Feb 2019 18:47

Hi Monman

Although it is not specified in the law, the jointly-owned property generally includes:

(a) common-use areas / corridors / yard,
(b) staircases,
(c) roof,
(d) foundations,
(e) common structural elements,
(f) main walls supporting the whole jointly-owned property,
(g) common walls between units and the jointly-owned property,
(h) electrical installation,
(i) plumbing system and engine room,
(j) lifts.


Furthermore, according to the law:

9 Every owner is obliged to:

(a) Allow the Management Committee and its representatives at reasonable times and after giving notice – provided that no notice is required for urgent cases – to enter his unit in order to inspect, maintain, repair or replace pipes, wires, cables and ducts of the unit which may be used in relation to the enjoyment of any other unit or jointly-owned property or for maintenance or repair or in order to secure compliance with these Regulations;"


(See page 16 of the English translation of the relevant law.)

I suggest you give your Management Committee a kick in the backside.

As for your insurance company refusing to pay, the WHOLE of jointly-owned building must be insured with the same insurance company as this avoids the problem you are facing.

But it's also possible that your Management Committee has only insured the jointly-owned building for the minimum cover required by law - i.e. fire, lightning and earthquake.


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Monman
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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Monman » 12 Feb 2019 09:55

Hi

This seems to be a very "Grey" area.
Can I assume that the Management Committee is responsible to oversee that each "unit" owner maintains his property in such a way as to not “effect the use and enjoyment” of the owners other units in the complex, and should an owner not comply with the Laws or Regulations the management committee should undertake any action required and recoup the costs from the owner of the unit in question ?
Also Is a veranda (Which is the “roof” of a neighboring property) defined as Jointly owned property? Are Stormwater drains also Jointly owned property ?
Regards
Monman



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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Nigel Howarth » 12 Feb 2019 17:34

Hi monman

I suggest you download and print a copy of the law and give it to your Management Committee - link in my earlier reply. That contains the obligations and rights of owners and the Management Committee. If something is unclear, get back to me.

The veranda is not part of the jointly-owner property (unless it is available for everyone to use.)

Drains are part of the plumbing system. "Plumbing is any system that conveys fluids for a wide range of applications. Plumbing uses pipes, valves, plumbing fixtures, tanks, and other apparatuses to convey fluids. Heating and cooling (HVAC), waste removal, and potable water delivery are among the most common uses for plumbing, but it is not limited to these applications." (Wikipedia)

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Monman
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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Monman » 12 Feb 2019 18:59

Hi Nigel

Thankyou for your reply

(I have no problem entering the property I can obtain a key from the Management Company).
As I see it now the Management Committees obligation is no more than to (Try to) find out who is the legal owner of the neighboring property and furnish Me with that information so that I can ask the owners to attend to and repair the offending areas of their veranda. If the owners have no insurance cover or are not contactable then I must pay for the repair myself.
Also, should the owner have no insurance covering such a situation then my insurance Company is not liable for any damage to my property or the veranda of the neighboring property.
None of the damage will be covered by the complex insurance as none of the affected “structures” Verandas, Ceilings storm water drainage are not classified as communal property
In other words I must pay for all repairs to My and the neighboring property myself, or at least pay for some sort of temporary construction that will cover the veranda above (25 Square Meters) in order to prevent storm water collecting And then hope that the Storm Water drainage is not defective.
Is that correct?
Regards
Monman



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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Nigel Howarth » 13 Feb 2019 10:07

Hi Monman

The first thing you need to do is establish whether the Management Committee has insured the building for for optional items such as:

(a) Explosion of boilers or gas used of domestic purposes only.
(b) Aircraft or other aerial devices or articles dropped therefrom.
(c) Riot, civil commotion, malicious persons or vandals.
(d) Storm or flood.
(e) Escape of water from any tank, apparatus or pipe.
(f) Impact by any road vehicle or animal.
(g) Accidental glass breakage.


in addition to the basic statutory cover for fire, lightning and earthquake.

Assuming that they haven't been cheapskates and have the optional covers, the insurance company should pick up the costs of repairing the damage caused by the water.

As the apartment causing the problem is private property, you cannot enter it. But the Management Committee can as I explained in an earlier reply.

In the worst case scenario you will have to pick up the tab for repairing the damage caused to your property - and preventive repairs to stop the water leaking again.

Regards,


Nigel Howarth
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Monman
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Re: Finding owner of niegbouring property

Post by Monman » 13 Feb 2019 10:13

Thankyou Nigel

Am I allowed to ask for a copy of the insurance policy ?

Regards
Monman



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