No title deeds - incomplete external works

Do you have a problem getting your Title Deeds?
Post Reply
quickmarch
Posts: 4
Joined: 01 Nov 2021 22:49

No title deeds - incomplete external works

Post by quickmarch »

Dear Nigel,
According to your interesting article here https://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers ... =00164552 the number of title deeds outstanding is reducing. The bad news - we appear to be part of the 5000 outstanding 'complex' cases.

In short, development has 3 parties - one party is AWOL (assume their house has been repossessed by the bank), one party is using the plot to grow fruit trees and and has no interest in title deeds. Then there's us. The house itself is all built above board and according to plan. As far as I know, the developer has not taken out any mortgage on the plot.

The reason TDs are not being issued is because there are outstanding external works that must be completed. The developer didn't do these, and he's now bankrupt. We hired a surveyor who estimated 85K to finish the works (tarmac'd road, street lights, path, wall, green space etc). Even if we did have the money (we don't!), it's unfair that we would need to bear all the costs.

We've tried dividing the land, and got our vertical division. But the horizontal won't be issued... again because works are outstanding. We're literally trapped.

I should add, my father recently passed away. My mother is now unable to get probate, as the TDs haven't been issued.

We've literally run out of ideas on how to proceed. Would you, or any reader, have any advice? Can we somehow apply for any amnesty? Can we pay our fair share "1/3" of the 85K for the works?

I look forward to hearing from you,

Robert
Nigel Howarth
Site Admin
Posts: 2911
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 14:38
Location: Erimi, Limassol, Cyprus
Contact:

Re: No title deeds - incomplete external works

Post by Nigel Howarth »

Hello Robert and welcome to the forum.

My condolences on the loss of your father, which must be adding to the stress of your situation.

Unfortunately there is no solution to the situation without paying for the work to be completed. (I published an article a couple of years ago - Planning issues the victim has to pay.)

Even if you were to pay your fair share, without the other 2 parties contributing their share, the work needed to get Title Deeds to be issued could not be completed.

As far as I am aware there is no solution to the problem - it requires a change in the law.

But the fact that Title Deeds haven't been issued shouldn't affect probate?

Regards,
Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news
Pantheman
Posts: 807
Joined: 26 Jan 2008 14:44
Location: Famagusta District
Contact:

Re: No title deeds - incomplete external works

Post by Pantheman »

Dear Robert,

My condolences on the loss of your father.

I am trying to understand this setup. Are you saying you are a single house on a plot or on a development??

Do you know on who's name the land title deed is??

If you can clarify, perhaps I could offer some alternative, depending.

Cheers
For all your property needs, we offer Trust, Integrity, Honesty.
FSB Properties Ltd
Registered and Licensed Real Estate Company. Reg. No. 1145, Lic. No. 572/E
Member of ETEK Registration No. A201999
https://www.fsbproperties.com
quickmarch
Posts: 4
Joined: 01 Nov 2021 22:49

Re: No title deeds - incomplete external works

Post by quickmarch »

But the fact that Title Deeds haven't been issued shouldn't affect probate?
Dear Nigel,
Thank you for your kinds words and reply.
The reason my Mum can't get probate is because, despite having fully paid for the property, it doesn't have title deeds. Therefore, the property cannot be transferred into her name. She now has to make a court appearance every 6 months. Can you imagine? Tragic.
Do you know on who's name the land title deed is??
Dear Pantheman,
Also, thanks for your kind words and reply. In all honesty, I'm not sure if there are Land Deeds, or who owns them. I suppose the bankrupt developer? We will try to find out. Do you know can I ask the Land Registry?

EDIT:
Are you saying you are a single house on a plot or on a development??
We are technically part of a development with 3 parties. Our house, an abandoned / repossessed house, and a relation of the developer who uses his plot for a small orchard / fruit trees.

Thanks for the replies so far,

Robert
Nigel Howarth
Site Admin
Posts: 2911
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 14:38
Location: Erimi, Limassol, Cyprus
Contact:

Re: No title deeds - incomplete external works

Post by Nigel Howarth »

Dear Robert

To find out who's name is on the Title Deed your mother, as your late father's executor, can ask the Land Registry for a Title Search. Information on how to go about this can be found at Title search procedures in Cyprus. I think the Land Registry fee is €20 and takes a few days for the results.

I don't understand why your mother has to appear in court every 6 months? Once the papers have been filed at court it takes in the region of 12 months for probate to be granted, but it may take longer due to the backlog built up during COVID.

Once probate has been granted the interest in the property will pass according to your late father's final wishes despite the fact the property does not have a title deed.

Regards,
Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news
Pantheman
Posts: 807
Joined: 26 Jan 2008 14:44
Location: Famagusta District
Contact:

Re: No title deeds - incomplete external works

Post by Pantheman »

quickmarch wrote: 02 Nov 2021 21:32
Do you know on who's name the land title deed is??
Dear Pantheman,
Also, thanks for your kind words and reply. In all honesty, I'm not sure if there are Land Deeds, or who owns them. I suppose the bankrupt developer? We will try to find out. Do you know can I ask the Land Registry? - It would specify on your contract of sale, but as Nigel has directed you can get a title search at the land registry.

EDIT:
Are you saying you are a single house on a plot or on a development??
We are technically part of a development with 3 parties. Our house, an abandoned / repossessed house, and a relation of the developer who uses his plot for a small orchard / fruit trees. - Once you establish on whose name the title is on, then perhaps you could explore the idea of getting a share of the land together with a distribution agreement. This way you will have a title to your name, even though the works have not been done. However, if there are any encumbrances on the land this won't be possible. I'm sorry it is long winded and somewhat complicated. I doubt you would be able to do this yourself, you would need the services of one of these agents that deal in such matters.

As for the probate, having no title should not stop this, what will happen is that your late fathers share will be passed onto his heirs, with or without title.

Thanks for the replies so far,

Robert
For all your property needs, we offer Trust, Integrity, Honesty.
FSB Properties Ltd
Registered and Licensed Real Estate Company. Reg. No. 1145, Lic. No. 572/E
Member of ETEK Registration No. A201999
https://www.fsbproperties.com
quickmarch
Posts: 4
Joined: 01 Nov 2021 22:49

Re: No title deeds - incomplete external works

Post by quickmarch »

Dear Nigel and Pantheman,

Your replies have been extremely interesting and they certainly give me at least another avenue or two to investigate. I greatly appreciate your both taking the time to share your knowledge and insights with the community.
I don't understand why your mother has to appear in court every 6 months?
Nigel, we have a lawyer handling this administration part, and I admit to finding it all a little confusing. The lawyer's very words were that my mum was 'served with a notice stating that you (my Mum) have omitted to file accounts for the administration' and one option to resolve this is 'The separate title deeds are issued and we transfer the ½ share in your (my Mum's) name. This way we will close/finalise the administration.' As a result, she has to go to the court in Limassol every 6 months to file the accounts. She has already been there once and has the next date in April 2022.

I 'translate' this as "We can't transfer half the property into your name because you have no title deeds. Go and get the title deeds (we've been trying for 17 years!) and we can then transfer the property to your name, close the book and you get probate.' Nightmare....

In the meantime, I will be starting immediately with the Title search - thanks for the link.

Pantheman, it's interesting that you share Nigel's opinion regarding the probate. I wil be getting back to our lawyer about this.

You mentioned
"you would need the services of one of these agents that deal in such matters"
Would you have any particular recommendation? As a first step, I will try to find out who owns the land title deeds and then take a closer look at your suggestions.

If you don't hear from me, don't worry - I will report back here once I get more info on the land title deeds!

Many thanks,

Robert
quickmarch
Posts: 4
Joined: 01 Nov 2021 22:49

Re: No title deeds - incomplete external works

Post by quickmarch »

@pantheman I already have an important update.

My Mum sent a message to the developer yesterday asking "Do you know who owns the land title deeds?". He came back immediately and said that he has the title deed and "if you wish I can try to transfer the land".

We are now extremely sceptical - this guy is bankrupt, and never does / did anything unless it is to his advantage. Why has it taken all these years to get this offer, and why is he so 'happy' to 'try' and transfer the land title deed?

Would you know, if we manage to get the land title deeds, is there any way we could somehow be liable for a debt? Yearly costs? Tax implications? Any other liability?
When we're talking about land title deeds, this only refers to our plot within the development, right?

We have informed him we will get back to him in the next day or two, and we would really appreciate your advice on this.

Look forward to hearing from you,

Robert
Pantheman
Posts: 807
Joined: 26 Jan 2008 14:44
Location: Famagusta District
Contact:

Re: No title deeds - incomplete external works

Post by Pantheman »

quickmarch wrote: 04 Nov 2021 20:06 @pantheman I already have an important update.

My Mum sent a message to the developer yesterday asking "Do you know who owns the land title deeds?". He came back immediately and said that he has the title deed and "if you wish I can try to transfer the land".

We are now extremely sceptical - this guy is bankrupt, and never does / did anything unless it is to his advantage. Why has it taken all these years to get this offer, and why is he so 'happy' to 'try' and transfer the land title deed?

Would you know, if we manage to get the land title deeds, is there any way we could somehow be liable for a debt? Yearly costs? Tax implications? Any other liability?
When we're talking about land title deeds, this only refers to our plot within the development, right?

We have informed him we will get back to him in the next day or two, and we would really appreciate your advice on this.

Look forward to hearing from you,

Robert
If he can transfer it (and I am suspicious that he can't if he is bankrupt, as there will be encumbrances on it i am sure), then it would be a good start. If he is bankrupt, he will have an administrator (he cannot transfer if bankrupt) to do this. The question I have is what, if any, charge will they make for this??

Then, for future, you will be responsible for any taxation only for your share not his. If you think that the plot will never get completed and hence no title deeds, then this is the next best thing. However, you need to ensure you also get a distribution agreement, to identify which piece is your share.

Just to clarify, land title deeds is the plot the properties sit upon, a share means the bit your house sits upon.

You really need to get a lawyer to deal with this, and probably not the one you already have. Where are you based??
For all your property needs, we offer Trust, Integrity, Honesty.
FSB Properties Ltd
Registered and Licensed Real Estate Company. Reg. No. 1145, Lic. No. 572/E
Member of ETEK Registration No. A201999
https://www.fsbproperties.com
Post Reply