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Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 27 May 2024 10:55
by muri0
Hi all,
I am using palsurveying to get an understanding of the specs of specific plots around my Area.
I have a doubt in relation to the floor limits. I see a specific plot being built with ground floor as covered open Garage and storage + 2 floors of apartments on top of it + rooftop.
On the plot specifications it is marked as 2 floors ( Ορόφοι: 2 ) and 8.3m (Υψος: 8.3μ).
My assumption is that if the ground floor is only composed by open garage/storage this does not count as floor and the building can be essentially Ground+2 floors. Is this correct?
I also see that the plot has buildable area of (Δόμηση:) 60% but the apartments are close to a 90%.
I have been told this could be from some extra density that was bought or that the plot might have some old permit going to 90% density.
What is your experience and how to get the exact building density numbers?
Thank you
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 27 May 2024 18:38
by Nigel Howarth
muri0 wrote: 27 May 2024 10:55My assumption is that if the ground floor is only composed by open garage/storage this does not count as floor and the building can be essentially Ground+2 floors. Is this correct?
Regardless of it's use, the ground floor is considered to be a floor. The building you're investigating has three floors.
If the open garage/storage is below ground it does not count towards the number of floors.
Regards,
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 28 May 2024 09:24
by muri0
Thank you for your answer.
I am looking for plots myself where I can build a 3 floor - 4 apartment building but it seems that the official information is completely useless.
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 28 May 2024 10:08
by Nigel Howarth
muri0 wrote: 28 May 2024 09:24There are dozens of new developments that have way higher density than what reported on the plot information.
Are you getting the plot information from the DLS database?
Also, it's possible in Cyprus to transfer
air rights, but this wouldn't affect dozens of developments.
It's based on a system used in the USA known as 'transfer of development rights'. Basically it allows you to sell your right to develop to someone else.
Let us say you have land that has a 100% coverage, but you only build 60%.
You can sell the difference, 40%, to someone else or use it elsewhere where the coverage is lower.
I believe it was introduced to help preserve older properties in towns (so rather than pulling down an old house and building a block of apartments in its place, the owner could sell his right to develop to someone else).
Regards,
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 28 May 2024 12:15
by muri0
Yes exactly, I am getting the information from the DLS portal.
Also, it's possible in Cyprus to transfer air rights, but this wouldn't affect dozens of developments.
This is what I see on the field here in Famagusta. It seems very odd to me.
Thanks a lot for the information. I will try to get a grasp on what is going on in the area / try to talk directly to the developers..
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 28 May 2024 12:39
by Pantheman
muri0 wrote: 28 May 2024 09:24
Thank you for your answer.
Looking at other plots in my area (Famagusta) I can see that pretty much most of the ongoing developments do not conform to what is officially reported on palsureveying.
There are dozens of new developments that have way higher density than what reported on the plot information.
On many plots where 2 floors for a total of 8.3m are allowed I can see 3 or even 4 floors being built.
I am looking for plots myself where I can build a 3 floor - 4 apartment building but it seems that the official information is completely useless.
'There are dozens of new developments that have way higher density than what reported on the plot information.' How do you know this, have you measured the buildings?
'On many plots where 2 floors for a total of 8.3m are allowed I can see 3 or even 4 floors being built.' Depends where you saw these buildings, town centre buildings allow 3 and 4 floor buildings.
I think that Nigel may have made a mistake, the parking areas on the ground floor do not form part of the densities, the max floors refers to living accommodation and their height should be no more than 8.3m.
Parking and storage areas are not counted in the coefficients and neither are the roof buildings / water tanks etc.
I am in Famagusta, where are you looking at??
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 28 May 2024 13:53
by muri0
How do you know this, have you measured the buildings?
I am simply looking at the specs of the project. Doing the math you can see that the density does not comply with DLS. I can bring a couple of examples if this makes it more concrete
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 28 May 2024 16:14
by Nigel Howarth
I see the plot is registered as a 'building site', but none of the properties built on the plot have been issued with Title Deeds.
Regards,
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 28 May 2024 16:27
by muri0
Do you mean the first plot I have mentioned (526)?
May I ask where do you see that the properties have not been issued with Title Deeds and that it is registered as 'building site' (what does it mean) ?
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 29 May 2024 07:15
by Nigel Howarth
muri0 wrote: 28 May 2024 16:27
Do you mean the first plot I have mentioned (526)?
May I ask where do you see that the properties have not been issued with Title Deeds and that it is registered as 'building site' (what does it mean) ?
Parcel 525 - block 0/13460
When I look at the DLS database, no properties are shown on the plot. When the properties are issued with Title Deeds ther details are entered into the DLS database.
Regards,
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 29 May 2024 07:58
by Pantheman
muri0 wrote: 28 May 2024 13:53
I think that Nigel may have made a mistake, the parking areas on the ground floor do not form part of the densities, the max floors refers to living accommodation and their height should be no more than 8.3m.
Parking and storage areas are not counted in the coefficients and neither are the roof buildings / water tanks etc.
That is actually what the agent said (the ground open garage does not count as floor) and I wanted to double check with you as I can not find proper information online. Can any development decide to have a ground "additional" floor as garage or does it require a permit?
How do you know this, have you measured the buildings?
I am simply looking at the specs of the project. Doing the math you can see that the density does not comply with DLS. I can bring a couple of examples if this makes it more concrete
https://homemake.com.cy/case/irida-residences/#
The plot is the number 526, marked as 2 floors, 0.6 density on a total of 526m2.
The project is composed of 4 apartments for a total of 418m2. That is 0.795 density which is way over 0.6
It is a Ground floor with garage + 2 floors for a total of 3 floors (not 2)
Depends where you saw these buildings, town centre buildings allow 3 and 4 floor buildings.
Other examples that you might know are Blu Horizon and Bay Terraces in Kapparis in front of Zorpas. (i.e.
https://www.bazaraki.com/real-estate-fo ... nts-flats/)
If you check the plots are 870 and 869. They are marked as 2 floors. Both projects have buildings of 4 floors and with that I mean 4 real apartments floors with ground apartments + 3 other floors + roof.
I have other examples all over the area. When I look up the plot information using DLS the development is almost never within the values provided in DLS.
I came to notice this when looking for plots myself. I understand each and every developer might have acquired additional permit and extra density but it makes it harder to plan. For example you can not know if the plot next to your 2 floor house will be developed with a 4 floors building one day (even when DLS says 2 floors) .. and all other sort of things.
Your Bazaraki link does not give any info, I don't see plots 870 or 869 anywhere.
As the plot in question is only 525m2 there is no room for parking hence the need to make the ground floor a parking area. You don't need any special permit to do this, it is a cost issue.
The land registry details are what the plot its zoned for, but there are various planning incentives that can increase the buildable area and these are given in %age form, for instance the planning authority may give you a 10% additional build for verandah's or parking or other. Just going off the DLS website is not enough.
As for the floors, these are stipulated and are not random. worst case see what the DLS website says and add a floor for the parking. The areas you mention may well be 3 floors anyway.
Also keep in mind, just because you see a building that has more floors, does not mean that it was permitted, it could be an illegal build!!!
I have a building plot in Paralimni area if you are looking.
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 29 May 2024 08:54
by muri0
Nigel Howarth wrote: 29 May 2024 07:15
muri0 wrote: 28 May 2024 16:27
Do you mean the first plot I have mentioned (526)?
May I ask where do you see that the properties have not been issued with Title Deeds and that it is registered as 'building site' (what does it mean) ?
Parcel 525 - block 0/13460
When I look at the DLS database, no properties are shown on the plot. When the properties are issued with Title Deeds ther details are entered into the DLS database.
Regards,
ah ok. The delivery is set to end of 2024. The Title Deeds might be transferred later at completion / sale of the apartments I suppose.
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 29 May 2024 09:00
by muri0
I have a building plot in Paralimni area if you are looking.
Could you send more info? thx
Thank you all for the answers on clarifying the topic
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 29 May 2024 21:34
by Nigel Howarth
muri0 wrote: 29 May 2024 08:54The Title Deeds might be transferred later at completion / sale of the apartments I suppose.
Completion in Cyprus is different to completion in the UK!
In the UK completion takes around two weeks after the exchange of contracts. On the day you complete you can pick up your keys and move in.
On the day of completion you pay the balance of the price on the property (the agreed price minus the deposit which you have already paid), usually through your lawyer or property conveyancer.
You receive the transfer document and the Title Deed.
The seller's deeds are now handed over to you, and arrangements are made for any outstanding mortgages on the property to be paid off.
In Cyprus, contracts do not normally include a date for completion; you merely accept delivery & possession of a property on a specified date. Property contracts in Cyprus often use the term 'completion', but this is when the construction of a property has been completed and ready to be delivered.
Completion in the proper sense cannot take place until the Title Deed for the property becomes available and any encumbrances, charges, or burdens lodged against it have been removed.
It is not unknown for completion to take a decade or more!
The chances of Title Deeds being available when the properties in Cyprus are completed are two thirds of three eighths of a very small number!
Regards
Re: Floor count on Plot information using palsurveying
Posted: 30 May 2024 15:33
by muri0
The chances of Title Deeds being available when the properties in Cyprus are completed are two thirds of three eighths of a very small number!
Is this some statistical data?
Do I understand it correctly you mean taking 100 sales, Titled deeds are issued on property completed 2/3 of 3/8 of times?
Is this like 25% of times (25 out of 100)