Cyprus Property Forum for Buyers, Sellers & Investors

Hi Janner,

Here are a couple of points I came across regarding "the agreement" - these are speculative so don't treat them as gospel:

• The sale of property pledged as collateral for non performing loans can only take place after the economy’s recovery and not sooner than January 2016.
  
  In case the property concerns ownership occupancy, the agreement foresees that the sale will take place after 24 months of non-performance, while all other cases will be sold after 18 months.

Cheers,

Hi Nigel,

I appreciate nobody knows for sure what will happen but my question regarding the speculative clause; 'The sale of property pledged as collateral for non performing loans can only take place after the economy’s recovery and not sooner than January 2016', is that did the developer pledge property (including my property) as collateral or was it the land?

I do find it odd that when the TROIKA assess the banks 'assets' that they (the banks) wouldn't be forced to realise any assets before borrowing more money. It doesn't make sense, to me anyway. Surely, if the bank has provided a loan, which was guaranteed on the basis of land/property as collateral then they would be forced to sell it??

It also makes it perfectly clear who owns it. Does the TROIKA not find it odd that the bank seem to own all this land and properties but haven't bothered to sell it. Do they not ask themselves why the banks have gone to the brink of collapse and not called in the developer NPL?

In which case, I could still pay a mortgage well after 2018, only for my property to taken from me anyway and sold!

It really does not make sense to me and I would like to the TROIKA to explain why it makes sense to them.

I think I will write to David Cameron and ask him why he would even entertain authorising the UK to back a bailout when this situation regarding NPL's and ownership hasn't even been addressed.

The single biggest problem regarding property is ownership. You cannot be the owner without the title. If the speculative clause is correct, its like a lengthy blackmail being condoned!

Janner

I totally agree janner. I too cannot understand why they are waiting till 2016 to reclaim collateral. One theory is that, as no property is selling the banks don't want it at the moment and it will give those with outstanding loans time to recover so that non performing loans might by then be performing
In my opinion, by 2016 there will be many more developers biting the dust, many more unemployed and thus by 2016 there will be hundreds of more properties. Also the interest owed on non performing loans will be far greater.
It is a mystery and difficult to see how it makes any kind of financial sense.

Hi, have recently been informed that my developer is in receivership, I have 41 pages + of properties that are mortgaged, some for hefty amounts, where can I send these searched documents to Troika, as I feel they need to know what has gone on. I fail to see why the banks will be bailed out when the bank has been negligent IMHO, my example 1995 the mortgage was taken out, what a sham.

If I do lose the villa, am I allowed to remove items that I have paid for since buying this Villa, wood burning stove, electric gates, outside bar, garage, etc why should the bank profit from me?

Regards

Roger Snelling (Pissouri

Hi Roger-Snelling. The entire situation is a mess and really is quite unbelievable. The only way this can ever be tackled is by mass co-ordination in an attempt to get the politicians in action. Articles about money laundering do help in highlighting corrupt activities. A few weeks ago I wrote to my MP asking them to join the all party parliamentary group headed by Bill Cash. I have not received a reply. At the same time I wrote to my MEP asking them to 'get on the bandwagon' and start asking questions like Daniel Hannan and Sir Graham Watson. I have not received a reply. I also wrote to Vivian Reding asking her to answer the bloody questions (I didn't swear) and what the EU was doing about all the unanswered questions. I have not received a reply.

I do wonder if this silence is because they are all 'in it together' and the more that comes out will highlight who, in power, has turned a blind eye. After all, many of them are all cut from the same cloth and probably went to 'Oxbridge' together!

I think this will drag on and on and that Cyprus will never have to answer these difficult questions. The problem I foresee though is, if Cyprus want to be a modern country how on earth will they ever achieve this with their 'hillbilly' attitude to life. No one will want to buy a holiday/retirement home there.

In answer to your question Roger-Snelling. I suspect that the bank will own everything and you will not be entitled to any of the things you have added back.

What a mess.

Roger-Snelling wrote:Hi, have recently been informed that my developer is in receivership, I have 41 pages + of properties that are mortgaged, some for hefty amounts, where can I send these searched documents to Troika, as I feel they need to know what has gone on. I fail to see why the banks will be bailed out when the bank has been negligent IMHO, my example 1995 the mortgage was taken out, what a sham.

If I do lose the villa, am I allowed to remove items that I have paid for since buying this Villa, wood burning stove, electric gates, outside bar, garage, etc why should the bank profit from me?

Regards

Roger Snelling (Pissouri

If you are taking these figures from a Land Registry Search document bear in mind that the figures quoted will be original mortgage sums that were initially taken out and may bear no resemblance to up to date balances. The developer may have in fact been paying his mortgages until recently but the Land Registry figures will not reflect this. It may also contain personal mortgages of house purchasers who bought from the developer. If so, they may well have been properly serviced to date and therefore not a problem. It is incredibly difficult to find these up to date figures as the only source of proof is the bank or banks that supplied them and to get the info is like drawing teeth. Usually, the only way they come to light is through the liquidation process provided your developer has accurate up to date accounts or when litigation procedures are instigated by the bank. My developer went bust over 2yrs ago and the actual balances being legally claimed by the bank are just coming to light now.

Hi Avanapa, yes I agree that the search documents may not be telling the true picture; could be more with 8.5% interest, or could be less, I was told by the bank many years ago that no interest was paid!!

I have my lawyer on the case as we speak, and we will know what the balance is on my villa pretty soon, from the receiver, or the bank of Cyprus, if they fail to give us this information court action will commence PDQ, we are entitled to know, period!!

You say your developer has gone bust 2 years ago, have you had any communication from the receiver?? Are you likely to be evicted? I have been informed by recoveries that if they don't get their money from the guarantors, or the company, then they will apply to the court to have me evicted. And then sell the villa in the auction.

Roger-Snelling wrote:Hi Avanapa, yes I agree that the search documents may not be telling the true picture; could be more with 8.5% interest, or could be less, I was told by the bank many years ago that no interest was paid!!

I have my lawyer on the case as we speak, and we will know what the balance is on my villa pretty soon, from the receiver, or the bank of Cyprus, if they fail to give us this information court action will commence PDQ, we are entitled to know, period!!

You say your developer has gone bust 2 years ago, have you had any communication from the receiver?? Are you likely to be evicted? I have been informed by recoveries that if they don't get their money from the guarantors, or the company, then they will apply to the court to have me evicted. And then sell the villa in the auction.

We have had a couple of meetings with the liquidator who always maintained that the developers lack of accurate accounting was the reason that up to date figures were not available. However, recently they came up with figures that are from the actual legal claim of the bank involved. Fortunately the balance relating to the plot we are on is relatively small and it is being suggested that each purchaser will be given the opportunity to pay an equal share to clear it off. The problem is that some purchasers are not prepared(or in some cases unable) to pay their share and so we are in a stalemate situation.
There is some confusion as to whether individual purchasers would be able to pay their share of the liability seperately thus freeing them from the encumbrance.
There is also the incredible situation that the developer apparently has many unsold properties and land that hold a value that would probably cover the entire company debt but the liquidator claims that, because the market is so flat and they cannot find buyers, the banks are only interested in reclaiming the money from existing homeowners. How ridiculous is that.

avanapa wrote:There is also the incredible situation that the developer apparently has many unsold properties and land that hold a value that would probably cover the entire company debt but the liquidator claims that, because the market is so flat and they cannot find buyers, the banks are only interested in reclaiming the money from existing homeowners. How ridiculous is that.

I suggest that you petition the court to change the liquidator. He should try to recover the monies owed by selling off the unsold properties first NOT harass buyers into coughing up for their developer's debts - he's just looking for an easy way out.

I'll send you a PM with the name of a lawyer you should talk to.

Cheers,

We have had a couple of meetings with the liquidator who always maintained that the developer’s lack of accurate accounting was the reason that up to date figures were not available.

Yea right!! Have the same problem.LOL!!
If this is the case, the above, then surely the developer is in default with the TAXMAN maybe VATMAN, in which case they should investigate, and I would have thought that the receiver was obliged to tell those concerned, of his concern.

However, recently they came up with figures that are from the actual legal claim of the bank involved. Fortunately the balance relating to the plot we are on is relatively small and it is being suggested that each purchaser will be given the opportunity to pay an equal share to clear it off. The problem is that some purchasers are not prepared (or in some cases unable) to pay their share and so we are in a stalemate situation.

If the above is true (am not suggesting you are wrong) how convenient you pay once, you pay again A bit more, but you are told the amount will be modest. But the bank retains the properties? To sell at a later date, I assume when the market bounces back, I don’t think so, that TO ME SAYS fraud, deception, and more, have you, in your possession "written proof" evidence, of the actual debt??? Or is it just him her saying whatever???? Am not surprised that some purchasers are not willing to pay up again, and sadly those who cannot pay up again.. Have you done a personnel search at the land registry??


There is some confusion as to whether individual purchasers would be able to pay their share of the liability separately thus freeing them from the encumbrance.

There is a law, I am fairly sure of this, where you can pay the debt off!! then you have to go to court, and the debt is proved to be paid, the court can instruct title deeds, without the consent of the developer. Am not sure, if this applies to say several properties, as they may be joined at the hips.


There is also the incredible situation that the developer apparently has many unsold properties and land that hold a value that would probably cover the entire company debt but the liquidator claims that, because the market is so flat and they cannot find buyers, the banks are only interested in reclaiming the money from existing homeowners. How ridiculous is that.

Incredible indeed (But This Is Cyprus Indeed Incredible) Take NH post onboard, and act on it, I will say this, get together as many others who are blighted, act as one, not individuals, you can win through this IMHO, but you have to stick through it together!! for those who are shy of money, and perhaps older, try and take care of them, you can come to a gentlemen’s agreement, for those who believe they are right, and that's that, well yes I agree!! but if there was a knock on their door tomorrow with an eviction notice then what?? You have to act, everyone. don't sit there with your head in the sand, or with your beer in one hand and, it won’t happen to us we are in Europe LOL!! Get real, next year, I believe we will see many things not good at all.

Take care

Kind Regards

Roger Snellingl

According to today’s financial press Pimco’s final report will be announced on Saturday.

Regards,

finally! I hope it is thorough and the TROIKA haven't been hoodwinked.

We have all heard so much about, hidden debts, non-performing developer loans etc and the figures differ considerably. This should put it all to bed and we will finally see if there are billions and billions of developer debts secured against land that is worth a fraction of its 'predicted' value.

If the figure isn't as bad as some would say then the government have been telling the truth all along! If it is as bad as some would say then the government have been lying and they will not only look like idiots but it will also show that it really was a coordinated effort by developers, lawyers, banks and government to commit a fraud on a massive scale.

Roll on Saturday. However, I did read the following on the Famagusta Gazzette website; (http://famagusta-gazette.com/imf-seeks- ... 963-69.htm)


IMF spokesman Gerry Rice was asked whether IMF has the final results of PIMCO, he said “we expect the PIMCO study to finalize very soon. The time of publication will be at the discretion of Cypriot authorities”.


If it is up to Cyprus they will delay and put their own slant on it, I'm sure.