Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

General questions & discussions on Cyprus property related matters
thedesignboy
Posts: 16
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 00:33
Location: Northern Ireland, Land of Simple Times

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by thedesignboy »

Thank you. Will do this today. Keep you posted.
melwil
Posts: 19
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 18:49

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by melwil »

thedesignboy,

taking each of your points in turn:-

1.It doesn't protect your legal position that you havent had the property signed over, if the developer has complied with their obligations under the contract to build and complete the property. I used the same lawyer as you. ie the Stigette of cyprus, that dodges jail. lol. I understand that she has already been reported to the police for fraudulent powers of attorney, so that will be on file with the police if you make the same allegations.

2.I have been cold called numerous times by the law firm looking to pursue my case for £1500. That is simply a con. They will bank the £1500 do very little for you as they already have your money, and tell you they got no-where with you case and ask for more cash. Get yourself properly tolled up with a good reputable cyprus lawyer, one of the two quoted by nigel in another post, who is from the uk herself.

3. Whatever you do, do not ignore emails, calls etc from the bank. Make sure to keep the bank informed of your situation at all times even if it is bad, even if it is to say you can't pay any money, and then at least you will have that on record if it goes to court and it is widely recognised that banks in general (maybe not in cyprus though!) are more willing to work with you if you engage with them. Do not ignore any court paperwork, and any timescales of court dates etc, if the bank get judgement against you in cyprus because you didnt lodge your notice of intention to defend, then it will be tough luck, the bank will have a judgement which cant be undone and can then enforce the judgement against you in the uk with no re-visit of the merits of your case. You obviously have a very good defence from what you have said and can probably string a court action out for years, whilst you put pressure on them to try to come to an agreement with the bank for them to take back the property, and absolve you of any liability for your loan. hopefully, as time goes on the eu will get on top of this mess, and test cases will have gone through.

4. Failure to proceed with the final payment to the bank will make no difference in terms of your liability for the loan, if the developer have complied with their obligations under the contract to build the property. There are two issues here. One why would you want to keep a property that is continuing to depreciate and lose money, but if you keep making the payments, if you can, the bank cannot pursue you for a judgement. You will need to check whether you are joint and severally liable along with your three friends to pay the loan ie even if you pay your share of the loan, can the bank still come after you because the other three failed to make their payments? i think you might find that they can.

hope that helps
thedesignboy
Posts: 16
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 00:33
Location: Northern Ireland, Land of Simple Times

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by thedesignboy »

Thank you guys so much for tankin your time to help me. Which is what you have clearly done. I'll call the bank tomorow and see what I can do.

It's only my property. I've other friends in the same complex. We are all having the same problems. I think from reading this I'll be getting the property signed over.

It sucks but it's the best action.
melwil
Posts: 19
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 18:49

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by melwil »

yes, i would keep paying the loan if you can to see how things pan out with test cases etc until you decide whether to ditch the property.

On the other hand who wants a loss making investment property that cant be rented or sold.

You have to weigh the risk based on your own circumstances.

Good luck.
thedesignboy
Posts: 16
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 00:33
Location: Northern Ireland, Land of Simple Times

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by thedesignboy »

Ive sent my whole case off to the mentioned firms, hopefully they can advise me on what action to take. I got a response from the bank offering to reduce payments for 6 months while I find a long term tenant. They say that the rental will cover the loan and all will be ok. I think I'll go with this, but wait for the lawyers to get back to me before I sign over. From what I read, having no property signed over is no better than having it. In fact at least I have a debt for something I own rather than just a big debt.
andyp
Posts: 76
Joined: 04 Feb 2011 23:22

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by andyp »

Designboy. I would suggest that you also check out rental rates for your property. I can't remember what your mortgage rate is but do not count on any rental fully covering this although it would obviously help. Cyprus rents for long term lets are quite low somewhere in the order of 3% in my experience. Good luck
thedesignboy
Posts: 16
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 00:33
Location: Northern Ireland, Land of Simple Times

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by thedesignboy »

Yea - heard that, I was thinking 6 months may help me find someone. But its a royal mess. Ultimately I want out - If this is a way of keeping me from court then I'll do it. I'll be waiting for a test case to go over and then make my move.
thedesignboy
Posts: 16
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 00:33
Location: Northern Ireland, Land of Simple Times

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by thedesignboy »

Tried the suggested lawyers. They said there is a case. But will only provide uk law advice. It makes me think they can't really for sure say if there is grounds.

They need £1500 up front to review the case. Then more to actually do anything with it. So back to square one. No cash to pay lawyers. I'm going to try the banks again for a solution.
Nigel Howarth
Site Admin
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Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by Nigel Howarth »

I believe that any of the lawyers you approach will need to assess your case and once they have a clear picture of what has happened and who has done what, they can then advise you what options are available to you and the cost of each of those options.

But lawyers need to be paid for the work they do, they are not charitable organisations.

I hope you manage to resolve matters with the bank.

Regards,
Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news
thedesignboy
Posts: 16
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 00:33
Location: Northern Ireland, Land of Simple Times

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by thedesignboy »

Yea, I could not expect anyone to work for free and I'm sure they are plagued with people like me. I'll see what I can figure out.
mr stress
Posts: 1
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 15:30

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by mr stress »

Nigel

If someone in the UK defaulted on there mortgage in Cyprus and the bank did persue them in the UK what would happen if the defaultee had no assets eg a house or anything worth more than a couple of thousand pounds, would the banks be able to take money from your wages?

Thanks
Nigel Howarth
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Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by Nigel Howarth »

mr stress wrote:If someone in the UK defaulted on there mortgage in Cyprus and the bank did persue them in the UK what would happen if the defaultee had no assets eg a house or anything worth more than a couple of thousand pounds, would the banks be able to take money from your wages?
I do not know what would happen in this situation. It might be worthwhile for you to speak with someone at your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

Regards,
Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news
melwil
Posts: 19
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 18:49

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by melwil »

Mr Stress,

Any judgement against you in Cyprus can simply re enforced against you in the uk without any re-visit on the merits of the action in the uk, therefore the bank would be entitled to the same redress against you as any other creditor chasing a debt in the uk. The bank would not be able to sieze your salary. The judge in the uk would look at all your outgoings and living expenses per month and work out if there was anything left over to pay the bank, which may or may not be a few pounds per month.

The bank don't have limitless resources and therefore they are un-likely to eat up management time and legal fees chasing someone in the uk for a debt who has no assets. That would be self defeating of the bank. I would think they will cherry pick those that have assets to pursue, but then again those with assets would probably not default on their loan to the bank. The bank can easily run a search in the land registry in england or scotland to confirm you have no assets.
Daftbuyer
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 Mar 2011 18:09

Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by Daftbuyer »

With regards Cypriot Banks "simply being able to enforce" any court ruling in Cyprus in the UK if you default on your mortgage. I'm not too sure that that is correct. I've done a bit of research and as far as i can see a debt can only be enforced through what is called a "European Enforcement Order" through out the EU, only if the original case is uncontested. So if you stick your head in the sand then yes you are in danger, but if you do contest the case then i think it would need to be re tried in the UK. The key bit i am trying to find out is what constitutes contesting a case??

See below re the ruling.....

The European Enforcement Order is a method of enforcing foreign judgments within the European Union without the need of any intermediate proceedings, such as exequatur. The procedure was established by Council Regulation (EC) 805/2004 of 21 April 2004 and comes into force on 21 October 2005. The EEO is applicable only in relation to uncontested claims. Uncontested claims are defined in Article 3 of the regulation as one of the following:

1.the debtor has expressly agreed to it by admission or by means of a settlement which has been approved by a court or concluded before a court in the course of proceedings; or
2.the debtor has never objected to it, in compliance with the relevant procedural requirements under the law of the Member State of origin (where judgment was given or the claim arose); or
3.after initial objection, the debtor has never appeared or been represented at court, provided that such conduct amounts to a tacit admission of the claim or of the facts alleged by the creditor under the law of the Member State of origin; or
4.the debtor has expressly agreed to it in an “authentic instrument” i.e. a document whose contents and signature have been ‘authenticated’ by a public authority.
The regulation provides a mechanism whereby if the defendant objects to the use of the EEO, the matter can become a Court case which can then be defended.

The EEO can be only be used in civil or commercial matters and specifically does not apply to the status or legal capacity of natural persons, rights in property arising out of a matrimonial relationship, wills and succession; bankruptcy, proceedings relating to the winding-up of insolvent companies or other legal persons, judicial arrangements, compositions and analogous proceedings; social security; arbitration.
Nigel Howarth
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Re: Cyprus Banks taking legal action in UK

Post by Nigel Howarth »

Hi Daftbuyer and welcome to the forum,

You would need to contest the case in a Cyprus court. If you won, all would be well. However if you lost, the judgement against you in Cyprus could be enforced in the UK. (The process was simplified last December - I'll see if I can find the relevant document).

REgards,
Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
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