Title Deeds and the LRO

Do you have a problem getting your Title Deeds?
Post Reply
howardinuk
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Sep 2017 17:29

Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by howardinuk » 04 Sep 2017 17:58

Hi all,
Newby to the forum but I have followed Nigel for many years in an attempt to keep up with the ever changing scene regarding property in Cyprus.

My question is:

How many of you are fighting the LRO in an attempt to obtain your title deeds.

We have produced everything required to the LRO including certificates from Tax Office, Sewerage board, Local Mayors office, copy cheques from the bank, receipts from lawyers re payment etc etc.. We have lodged our "hold back payment" with the LRO.
Even with all this they still keep asking for further details including asking for the Tax Release receipts all over again.

From day one, as my wife will not now fly we have had other problems including:

1. LRO would not accept a UK Power of Attorney. So

2. Complete an affidavit signed and receipted at the Cyprus Embassy in London. Taken to Cyprus and rejected by the LRO.

3. Attempt to get Cyprus Power of attorney in my lawyers name. Not acceptable as wife not signed. So

4. Create affidavit from wife empowering me to sign on her behalf to give POA to lawyer....not acceptable. So

5. Obtained full POA from UK as LRO finally agree to accept a UK issued POA.

6. They then queried the copy cheques from Bank of Cyprus. They required original cheques etc. Bank of Cyprus told them to F.......Off.

7. Bank of Cyprus had to write a very strong letter telling the LRO where to get off. LRO then agree to accept our affidavits/power of attorneys.

The saga goes on and on.

Our initial application went in in early 2016.

Anyone else struggling??????



Nigel Howarth
Site Admin
Posts: 2323
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 14:38
Location: Erimi, Limassol, Cyprus
Contact:

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by Nigel Howarth » 04 Sep 2017 22:41

Good evening howardinuk and welcome to the forum.

People are continuing to receive their Title Deeds - three/four friends in Limassol received theirs a couple of months ago.

Did you follow my guide - Applying for Title Deeds? Although you bought in joint names it only required yourself to get things underway. There was no need for your wife to get involved.

Dealing with the Land Registry (particularly in Paphos) can be very frustrating. I've received complaints from a number of people.

Trying to deal with these matters from outside Cyprus is a particular problem. As I advised in my article (which was vetted by the Department of Lands & Surveys):

Non-residents of Cyprus who are unable to submit their Title Deed applications in person have 2 options:
  • They may appoint a representative in Cyprus to handle matters on their behalf.
  • They may send the applications by post (not email) to any DLO together with a cheque for the application fee of €10 made payable to the Director of the Department of Lands and Surveys and attach copies of all evidence in relation to the full payment of the purchase price and taxes.
Note that original documents must not be sent in the post. Non-residents should make an appointment with a Cyprus Government office in their country of residence to arrange certified copies to be made of all the documents and supporting evidence they plan to send. Their application must include their full contact address and their email address.

An affidavit has to be sworn in front of a judge - but even so you need to provide evidence of payment, etc.

PoAs must be signed in the presence of a Certifying Officer (a Cyprus government appointee) who will check your identity from you passport and witness your signature.

Certified copies of cheques should have been sufficient. (A Cypriot got the Bank of Cyprus to get the cheques from their archive, copy and certify them). But when he got what he thought was his deed, it was the deed for his neighbour's property; he managed to resolve this.

There is no excuse for them losing receipts confirming payment of IPT, local property tax and sewerage board receipts.

How far have you got with this?

Regards,


Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news

howardinuk
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Sep 2017 17:29

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by howardinuk » 05 Sep 2017 17:36

Hi Nigel,
In order:

We applied to the LRO via our Limassol lawyer (one of the good guys).

We also took particular note of your article and gave the lawyer a copy.

The LRO finally accepted an Affidavit re the payments but I had to attend Cyprus (Limassol court) to have it certified/witnessed.

House is in joint names and the LRO would only accept any communication signed by both owners.(Even through the lawyer).

Our developer has objected on the basis that he is claiming (falsely) more money for extras to the property and although it is my understanding that the LRO are only concerned with the "Contract Price" they are listening to the developer and making queries to us!!!!

Unfortunately for us the developer is also the President of the village where he built the property. Parekklishia.

The LRO seem to making up the rules as they go along.

At the moment the lawyer is confident that we have done everything correctly and as required by the LRO.......We await news from the LRO.

I will keep you all informed.



Nigel Howarth
Site Admin
Posts: 2323
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 14:38
Location: Erimi, Limassol, Cyprus
Contact:

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by Nigel Howarth » 07 Sep 2017 20:12

Hi howardinuk

I know of another developer who is claimed (falsely) that someone who bought a property owed him money for extras. In this particular case the cost for taking the scrote to court would have been more than the money he was claiming.

In this case the purchaser decided to pay the scrote the money he claimed as it was less than the costs involved in taking it to court.

(When you applied for your deeds both you and your wife signed the application form? If so, the Land Registry will need both signatures on PoAs, etc.)

Please keep me posted on progress.

Regards,


Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news

howardinuk
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Sep 2017 17:29

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by howardinuk » 29 Mar 2018 12:43

Hi Nigel,

As an update re our application to the LRO for deeds here are the latest happenings:

1. We proved all payments to developer.
2. Warranty hold back money lodged with LRO.
3. All release certificates obtained from Electricity, Water, Sewerage Etc Etc.
4. Out of the blue developer via his lawyer sends invoice dated 2014 for old IPT amounts he has paid to the tax authorities. (Our lawyer asks for receipts and up to date invoice).
5. Nothing heard from developers lawyer.
6. We and our lawyer agree the amounts asked for seem reasonable and ask to whom they wish the cheque sent too. We hear nothing.
7. Our lawyer approaches the LRO who say they will contact the Lawyer and the developer for full details so we may lodge the money with the LRO.

Well, that was over 5 months ago .

We continue to await the results.

It just seems that the LRO are willing to totally support these bent developers rather than push forward the issuance of the deeds.......

Frustrated once more. Its only the 15th anniversary in June.

Howard



Nigel Howarth
Site Admin
Posts: 2323
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 14:38
Location: Erimi, Limassol, Cyprus
Contact:

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by Nigel Howarth » 29 Mar 2018 18:51

Hi Howard

It isn't a case of the LRO supporting bent developers - I expect your application will have been put on the back burner until the developer replies.

I think the developer is charging you for IPT for the years before 2014 - is that correct?

If your contract contains a clause similar to “As from the day the Purchasers are in possession of the property, they undertake to be responsible for and to pay all the Government, municipal and local authorities’ taxes, levies, duties or charges (if any) raised on or in connection with the possession of the Property hereby sold.” he can do that (and you are obliged to pay under the terms of your contract.)

But if you've paid the IPT, etc. to the appropriate authority you don't owe him anything.

Can you please reply with the exact words in your contract relating to the payment of taxes etc.

Regards,


Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news

howardinuk
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Sep 2017 17:29

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by howardinuk » 21 May 2018 10:49

Hi Nigel,

Sorry for the delay but have been in hospital and other things...

We seem to have resolved the IPT situation but we still have the "Developers" yearly property tax paid on properties built before transfer of deeds to buyers. In our case he paid up until 1st year of IPT and we brought these fees up to date (up to and inc 2017).

However he issued an invoice in 2014 to collect all Tax Fees paid to the Revenue from 2003 until around 2013. We have attempted to pay this money through our lawyer but it keeps being returned by his lawyers who keep saying they never issued an invoice. (we sent them a copy of the original).

They then keep telling the LRO that we owe taxes up to 2013......The amount we keep trying to pay.

His lawyers hope this will thus delay the issue of the deeds.

The LRO suggest we sign an affidavit stating we have paid all the taxes owed and lodge it with the LRO.

We think NOT.......this will mean we have lied on oath. How on earth the LRO can even suggest this we do not know.

Also, for what will now be the 3rd time the LRO want to see all utility and taxes. sewerage etc paid up to date before they say yes to the transfer. Instead of us doing these actions at the time of issuance just as with a sale/purchase.

So the saga goes on.

Do I live in hope ??????

Regards

Howard



Nigel Howarth
Site Admin
Posts: 2323
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 14:38
Location: Erimi, Limassol, Cyprus
Contact:

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by Nigel Howarth » 21 May 2018 12:37

Hi Howard

One thing you may be able to do is take the developer's tax invoice and a certified copy to Land Registry and see if they will allow you to deposit the taxes into their escrow account that will be given to the developer when the transfer takes place.

You will need to discuss this with your lawyer.

Regards,


Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news

howardinuk
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Sep 2017 17:29

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by howardinuk » 29 May 2018 14:55

Hi Nigel,

I have actually suggested this to our lawyer and await a reply.

I have also suggested the lawyer pays the developer from his account. Therefore this being proof to the TRO....Again I await a response.

Will keep you advised.


Howard



howardinuk
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Sep 2017 17:29

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by howardinuk » 17 Aug 2018 19:40

Update time.

We finally convinced the LRO to allow us to deposit the Immovable Property taxes paid by the developer from 2003 to 2012 in their Escrow account in the developers name.

What a job that was. The developer and his lawyer both stated they had never instigated such an invoice.

Luckily the copy we received was sent by a fax from the developers lawyer to our lawyer. Being a fax the heading showed the Company name of the sender along with the time, and the senders fax number. The developers lawyer must really have seen red when shown that copy !!!!!!!

So...here we go we said.

Well not quite !!!!!!. Now the LRO have demanded yet another Affidavit from us stating we have paid the developer all the money we have already stated on another Affidavit we have paid to him. It is laughable.

The LRO are still of a mind to believe the developer and his lawyers. They have not asked the developer for any bank statements, tax returns or anything else........I suppose others have had similar problems.

Well dear readers I am hopeful that maybe, just maybe I may need to come over and sign sign sign....whilst donating a considerable sum to the LRO for the Transfer Tax.

After all this they should be paying me....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Merry Christmas everyone. (I am bound to be back talking about this again. !!!!!



Nigel Howarth
Site Admin
Posts: 2323
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 14:38
Location: Erimi, Limassol, Cyprus
Contact:

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by Nigel Howarth » 18 Aug 2018 10:52

Hi Howard

It seems that you're getting there slowly.

Regarding the affidavit, I'm not sure this will be sufficient to prove that you've paid. If you look at my article 'Applying for Title Deeds' it says:

"In situations where the purchaser encounters difficulties obtaining evidence confirming they have paid in full, they may swear an affidavit at court and include this with their application. (A lawyer is not required.)

"However, this affidavit will not be considered as adequate evidence and the purchaser must strive to obtain further evidence, as outlined above, to support their application."


If you haven't got receipts your bank will have details of the payment and should be able to provide you with a certified copy of the cheques..

Regards,


Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news

Pantheman
Posts: 521
Joined: 26 Jan 2008 14:44
Location: Famagusta District
Contact:

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by Pantheman » 19 Aug 2018 10:49

The lawyer you used to purchase the property in the first place can issue you with a declaration that you paid. This is accepted by the land registry.


For all your property needs, we offer Trust, Integrity, Honesty.
FSB Properties Ltd
Registered and Licensed Real Estate Company Co. Reg. No. 795, Lic. No. 250/E
http://www.fsbproperties.com

howardinuk
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Sep 2017 17:29

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by howardinuk » 30 Aug 2018 21:59

Hello Nigel and Pantheman,

Re the original lawyer confirming payments......Not acceptable.
Bank sent copies of every cheque but LRO demanded originals to which the Bank told them to ....F.....O.....f
The LRO are the ones now asking for our affidavit. This will be number two plus lawyer letters etc etc etc

We only do what we are asked or required to do.

We await their next delay tactic with interest.

Happy days are around somewhere.

H



Nigel Howarth
Site Admin
Posts: 2323
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 14:38
Location: Erimi, Limassol, Cyprus
Contact:

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by Nigel Howarth » 31 Aug 2018 11:56

Hi Howard

I don't know what the LRO are doing. I know for a fact that the LRO in Limassol has accepted certified copies of cheques to confirm payments to the developer.

Regards,


Nigel Howarth
Independent information & advice for Cyprus property buyers
Contact Nigel Howarth
Read the latest Cyprus property news

Pantheman
Posts: 521
Joined: 26 Jan 2008 14:44
Location: Famagusta District
Contact:

Re: Title Deeds and the LRO

Post by Pantheman » 31 Aug 2018 15:42

Nigel Howarth wrote:
31 Aug 2018 11:56
Hi Howard

I don't know what the LRO are doing. I know for a fact that the LRO in Limassol has accepted certified copies of cheques to confirm payments to the developer.

Regards,
I also know for a fact that the Famagusta LRO in Paralimni has accepted a declaration from the lawyer as paid.

Seems, they are a law unto themselves!!!


For all your property needs, we offer Trust, Integrity, Honesty.
FSB Properties Ltd
Registered and Licensed Real Estate Company Co. Reg. No. 795, Lic. No. 250/E
http://www.fsbproperties.com

Post Reply